[OT] provincial Spanish Re: SF from other cultures

[Peter D. Tillman]

In isolated villages in the mountains of northern New Mexico, you still
here traces of Castilian accent (or what I imagine is Castilian: the
lisped "s", the rolled "r"), from the 17th century settlers -- who, come
to think of it, were mostly mestizos from the Valley of Mexico, so they
spoke, I suppose, corrupt Mexican Castilian...

I thought a lot of the settlers to the Rio Grande valley and vicinity
were from the Canary Islands.

Huh. I hadn't heard that.

[crossposted for possible explanation?] [and, dammit, the nm. NG's still
aren't on the Berlin server]

Cheers -- Pete Tillman
Santa Fe

[Semi Anne]

I thought a lot of the settlers to the Rio Grande valley and vicinity
were from the Canary Islands.

Where in the world did THAT come from?
And what do you consider the "Rio Grande valley?"
To those of us who live in the USA, that means
Brownsville, TX and environs, where the majority
of citizens are of Hispanic - primarily Mexican -
descent, depending on the time of year! In the
winter, there are plenty of Anglo "Snow Birds"
who migrate to the region.

[Phil Fraering]

Post by Semi Anne
Where in the world did THAT come from?
And what do you consider the "Rio Grande valley?"
To those of us who live in the USA, that means
Brownsville, TX and environs, where the majority
of citizens are of Hispanic - primarily Mexican -
descent, depending on the time of year! In the
winter, there are plenty of Anglo "Snow Birds"
who migrate to the region.

It came from me and not Mr. Tillman.

It was in a book I once read, and referred to
the Rio Grande valley, from Texas upriver to
New Mexico.

I believe it was referring to the 16th or
17th century.

I don't know which part of the modern Rio Grande
valley it was referring to.

[Peter D. Tillman]

Post by Phil Fraering

Post by Semi Anne
Where in the world did THAT come from?
And what do you consider the "Rio Grande valley?"
To those of us who live in the USA, that means
Brownsville, TX and environs, where the majority
of citizens are of Hispanic - primarily Mexican -
descent, depending on the time of year! In the
winter, there are plenty of Anglo "Snow Birds"
who migrate to the region.

It came from me and not Mr. Tillman.
It was in a book I once read, and referred to
the Rio Grande valley, from Texas upriver to
New Mexico.
I believe it was referring to the 16th or
17th century.
I don't know which part of the modern Rio Grande
valley it was referring to.

That would be the Rio Abajo, I think -- approx from Albuquerque to El
Paso.

As opposed to the Rio Arriba, which is ABQ north into Colorado
(including Hispanic southern CO in colonial times, IB), which includes
the mountain villages. I've never heard of Canary Islanders there. But
I'm new to NM.

Cheers -- Pete Tillman
Santa Fe

[Semi Anne]

Post by Peter D. Tillman
That would be the Rio Abajo, I think -- approx from Albuquerque to El
Paso.

Well, it depends on WHICH locale you are in!

For example, having been born and raised in
El Paso, people there call the downriver area
"the lower valley" and the upriver area "the
upper valley." And as far as I know, people in
Albuquerque refer to it as "the valley." People
in Las Cruces are more likely to refer to the
downriver as "the Mesilla valley." But
usually, in general, "the Rio Grande valley"
refers to the Brownsville area of south Texas.

And one has to remember that
the Rio Grande (Rio Bravo to Mexicans) is, according
to:

http://www.tsha.utexas.edu/handbook/online/articles/view/RR/rnr5.html

"in the late 1980s, according to the International Boundary and Water
Commission, its total length was 1,896 miles."

Post by Peter D. Tillman
I've never heard of Canary Islanders there.

Well, I'm native to the area and know it's history
as well as the average person and I have no idea
where this Canary Islander myth originated either. I've
lived here for nearly 70 years and never met one
yet - although there are caged canaries available!

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Post by Semi Anne

Post by Peter D. Tillman
I've never heard of Canary Islanders there.

Well, I'm native to the area and know it's history
as well as the average person and I have no idea
where this Canary Islander myth originated either. I've
lived here for nearly 70 years and never met one
yet - although there are caged canaries available!

How would you tell if your local Spanish-speaking person was descended
from Canary Islanders or mainland Spaniards?

[Phil Fraering]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans

Post by Semi Anne

Post by Peter D. Tillman
I've never heard of Canary Islanders there.

Well, I'm native to the area and know it's history
as well as the average person and I have no idea
where this Canary Islander myth originated either. I've
lived here for nearly 70 years and never met one
yet - although there are caged canaries available!

How would you tell if your local Spanish-speaking person was descended
from Canary Islanders or mainland Spaniards?

Also, I thought that ever since the Age of Discovery, a great deal of
the people in the Canary Islands were from mainland Spain to begin with.

[Semi Anne]

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
How would you tell if your local Spanish-speaking person was descended
from Canary Islanders or mainland Spaniards?

Duh...they'd tell you?!

MOST New Mexicans with hispanic names are
a mix of indigenous tribes and Spanish
invaders. MOST New Mexicans are very proud
of their heritage if their ancestors have
lived in the area for several generations.
And MOST I know have a very good
genealogical record for their family.

[Lawrence Watt-Evans]

Post by Semi Anne

Post by Lawrence Watt-Evans
How would you tell if your local Spanish-speaking person was descended
from Canary Islanders or mainland Spaniards?

Duh...they'd tell you?!
MOST New Mexicans with hispanic names are
a mix of indigenous tribes and Spanish
invaders. MOST New Mexicans are very proud
of their heritage if their ancestors have
lived in the area for several generations.
And MOST I know have a very good
genealogical record for their family.

You know, the Canary Islands are part of Spain. So their ancestors
come from Spain, yeah -- what does that have to do with whether or not
they're from the Canary Islands?